Six or seven months after Jack Butler's death, Neville, fully awake and out of the body, met Jack restored as a young man in his twenties, with his sister-in-law Al also present; Jack did not know he had died, and Neville put his hand on Jack's solid thigh to prove to Al that he was real, whereupon Jack slapped his hand away.
Date (happened)
between February 1949 and March 1949
unresolved
between February 1949 and March 1949
estimated · probable · preferred
Why
Converges two independent readings of the same passage (the 'last year' remark and the 'six or seven months' interval) on the same window.
Reasoning
Passage 536679 pins Jack Butler's death to 1948 ('the year 1948... yes, '48'). Passage 536680 has Neville, addressing Al and Jack inside the encounter itself, say Jack 'died in August of last year' -- with the death fixed at 1948, 'last year' relative to the encounter dates the encounter to 1949. The same passage's outer frame places the encounter 'six or seven months' after the death; six-to-seven months after an August 1948 death lands in February-March 1949, agreeing with the year derived from 'last year'. This narrows the existing 1948-1949/possible claim to a two-month window in 1949. It stays at probable rather than certain because it is Neville's own recollection given at the 1967 telling, nineteen years after the fact.
between 1948 and 1949
stated · possible
after 1948
bound · probable
Reasoning
Passage 552959 (corroborated by passage 552970 in the same lecture) says 'In 1948, my secretary, Jack Butler, died quite suddenly. Six or seven months later, fully awake and aware of where I was and what I was doing, I visited Jack.' The visit (this event) therefore occurred after 1948; the exact month of Jack's death is not stated, so a tighter bound cannot be computed with confidence -- the six-to-seven-month gap likely places the visit in late 1948 or in 1949 depending on which month within 1948 Jack died.
between 1948 and 1949
bound · possible
Why
See merge_proposal: this event is very likely a duplicate of hist_event:16336, which already carries this same date and a field_told claim.
Reasoning
This event's own witness (passage 555396, nid 2197) carries no date evidence, and nid 2197 has no delivery date at all. This is the same real-world happening as hist_event:16336, already dated 1948-49 (between, possible) from the parallel telling in nid 1310, six-to-seven months after Jack's death; that date is borrowed here as the best available evidence for the same event.
between February 1949 and March 1949
estimated · probable
Why
M7 dating pass (529; 525's readers, packet 010)
Reasoning
Borrowed from event 16336's independent triangulation of the same encounter.
c. February 1947
estimated · refuted
Why
pm-actor-525: refuted by the M7 dating pass (529; 525's readers, packet 010): Rests on a passage where Neville's own chronology is admittedly garbled ('I came out here in '45. No, it was '47...'); defer to event 16336's cleaner triangulation from the death year (1948, age arithmetic) and a consistent six-to-seven-month interval.
Reasoning
Neville places his secretary's fatal heart attack on 'a hot August day', in a year he first calls 1946. Six months after an August death lands in February of the following year, so I take the Jack Butler encounter as circa February 1947. I hold this at possible rather than probable because in the same breath Neville audibly stumbles over the surrounding chronology ('I came out here in '45. No, it was '47. I came out here in '45, returned in 1946 in the summer') -- the August-death year itself is not stated as cleanly as the 'six months later' interval that follows it.
Told / reported
-
28 April 1964
estimated
Why
The happening date itself (relative to Jack's death) is not fixed by anything in this packet.
Reasoning
The out-of-body meeting is recounted in the passage that is part of lecture nid 1162; the lecture's own delivery date is the telling date, not the happening date, and it is certain because two independent methods agree on 1964-04-28.
13 November 1964
estimated
Reasoning
The vision is recounted within lecture 'Thy Dead Shall Live' (nid 1171), whose delivery date is corroborated at certain confidence by two independent sources (catalog #238 and a chrome dateline harvested from the transcript's own header), both giving 1964-11-13, a Friday. This is the telling date; the happening (Jack's death and the vision six months later) is undated in this packet -- there is no anchor here for when Neville arrived in Los Angeles ('my first year' in this city) to fix the underlying year.
24 November 1967
estimated
Reasoning
Neville recounts the vision in this lecture, whose certain delivery date is 1967-11-24, independently corroborated by the catalog entry and the transcript's own chrome dateline.
9 April 1971
estimated
Why
Both delivery claims agree (1971-04-09, certain); no tiebreak needed. Same lecture as sibling events 8539/8541/8549 etc.
Reasoning
This life event is witnessed by passage 550189 in nid 1962. The lecture's two delivery claims agree exactly at certain confidence with no conflict, so the told date inherits certain.
Sources
Source
- Baptism Into One Body ("Truth, the Word of God") ¶12 (Then I said to Al, “Now Al, watch this” and I put my hand on his thigh. I said, “You see, my hand doesn’t go through his thigh. He’s solid. If I cut him right now he’ll bleed. He will hurt as you would hurt. He is solid and he is real.”)
- Baptism Into One Body ("Truth, the Word of God") ¶10 (Fixes Jack Butler's death year to 1948 ('the year 1948...yes, '48, for he was born in '98'))
- Baptism Into One Body ("Truth, the Word of God") ¶11 ('six or seven months later' and 'Jack died in August of last year', both spoken by Neville within the encounter)
- I Am the Truth ¶20 (And when I said to Jack, you know, Jack — no, you’re not dead, but you died — he said, oh, stupid Neville, I mean, I am not dead, but I died. How is that possible? I said, Jack, I went to your funeral and buried you, gave you a marvelous Catholic funeral.)