Neville recounts a night vision of about twelve years earlier in which a British politician (second in the Labour Party under Clement Attlee, now dead) came with a group of men whose antlers grew out of their brains toward the sky; the politician placed a branch on his own head hoping for the same power, ran, jumped and fell flat on his face, and failed every time because he tried to do it from without.
Date (happened)
between 1951 and 1952
unresolved
between 1951 and 1952
stated · preferred
c. 1960
stated · probable
between 1951 and 1952
estimated · probable
Why
Supersedes in substance, not in storage, the stale 1955-1956 figure at delta 2 on this event, which was computed from a delivery date subsequently refuted.
Reasoning
Recomputed against the delivery date that now stands for nid 2078 after the L7 refutation (1967-11-13, probable, the lecture's only surviving delivery claim; the 1971-03-10 and 1972-03-27 claims the original 1955-1956 computation used are both refuted). 1967-11-13 minus fifteen/sixteen years gives 1951-11 to 1952-11, matching the sibling telling in nid 1305 (delivered the same day, certain) that npr:87787 could not reconcile with this passage's stale 1955-1956 figure. The apparent tie was an artifact of a since-corrected delivery date, not independent disagreement.
between 1951 and 1952
relative · probable
Reasoning
He places the vision fifteen to sixteen years before the telling. The telling lecture (nid 1305) is certainly dated 1967-11-13 (catalog #388, independently corroborated by the lecture's own chrome dateline '11/13/67' removed in Pass 0), giving a vision window of 1951-1952. This is a loose recollected estimate, not an exact date, hence 'between'/probable rather than a single year.
between 1955 and 1956
stated · refuted
Why
pm-actor-525: refuted by the M7 dating pass (529; 525's readers, packet 011): Computed from node 2078's 1972-03-27 delivery claim, now refuted; the surviving 1967-11-13 delivery date for the same passage gives 1951-1952 instead (already reflected in this event's own delta3), matching the independent nid 1305 telling.
Told / reported
-
-
13 November 1967
estimated · probable
Why
Lane L7 (#2354) re-derivation. Supersedes in substance, not in storage, the refuted-date told claim(s) on this event; those rows stand per append-only.
Reasoning
Re-derived, not walked down. The existing told claim(s) on this event took their date from a delivery claim on node 2078 that the corpus has since REFUTED, so the corpus was asserting that Neville told this on a day it separately says he did not lecture. That is a contradiction rather than an over-confidence, and lowering the confidence would have hidden it instead of resolving it. The refutation stands and the told claim is the wrong side of it. Node 2078 surviving (non-refuted) claim: 1967-11-13 at `probable`. All claims on the node: 1971-3-10 refuted; 1972-3-27 refuted; 1967-11-13 probable (preferred). Superseded here: delta 2: 1972-03-27 at `certain` (run `corpus v1 / phase3b`) | delta 3: 1972-03-27 at `probable` (run `v1.1/l4/ceiling/c2`). The telling is dated by its lecture, so with the refuted date removed from consideration the surviving claim is what the telling inherits, at that claim own confidence and no higher.
27 March 1972
stated · refuted
Reasoning
|| v1.1/l7/told-close: the delivery claim this was derived from (nid 2078, 1972-3-27) was refuted by the L7 adjudication (#2363). The corrected told claim from the same lecture stands at 1967-11-13. This row is retired rather than deleted so the derivation history remains readable.
27 March 1972
stated · refuted
Why
Corrects the confidence of the told claim written by run `corpus v1 / phase3b` at delta 2 on this event; that claim is left standing per append-only. Ceiling rule #2132.
Reasoning
Confidence only; the date is not re-adjudicated and is left exactly as written. This claim is derived from the delivery claims of node 2078 and asserts `certain`, but the strongest claim that node carries is `probable`, so there is nothing for `certain` to inherit from. nid 2078 delivery claims: 1971-3-10 doubtful; 1972-3-27 doubtful; 1967-11-13 probable. Walked back to `probable`, the ceiling. Whether the DATE is right is a separate question this row does not touch; if the evidence turns out to support more confidence, it will have to come from a source other than this node. || v1.1/l7/told-close: the delivery claim this was derived from (nid 2078, 1972-3-27) was refuted by the L7 adjudication (#2363). The corrected told claim from the same lecture stands at 1967-11-13. This row is retired rather than deleted so the derivation history remains readable.
Sources
Source
- What Is Man ¶14 (I recall my vision of maybe twelve years ago, that man is now gone from this world. He was second in the Labour Party when Clement Attlee (1883–1967) was prime minister. And I saw him in this wonderful vision one night.)
- The Purpose of Life Is to Fulfill the Word of God ¶17 (Now this night I would say fifteen, sixteen years ago, I saw this wonderful forest and I saw these men walking like stags.)
- The Promise Is the Fulfillment of God's Word ¶15 (Fifteen or sixteen years ago, in vision, I saw these wonderful men walking like stallions. Such magistery, with antlers coming out of their heads so high they disappeared into the sky.)
3 tellings, oldest first. A date in brackets shows how it is known; "circa", "after" and "possible" dates are rough.
| Date |
Lecture or book |
Telling |
Passage |
| 1967-11-13 [exact/probable/final] |
The Promise Is the Fulfillment of God's Word |
Fifteen or sixteen years ago, in vision, I saw these wonderful men walking like stags. Such majesty, with antlers coming out of their heads so high they disappeared into the sky. Then I saw a man who at that time was third in the government of England. [A very controversial figure, he disliked aristocracy, wealth, or anything that he considered noble. He tried to nationalise all industry, and in the trying he nearly broke England.] This man took a tree from the outside and put it on his head, stood on the highest hill, jumped, and fell flat. Getting up again, he climbed the hill, placed the… |
552843 |
| 1967-11-13 [exact/certain/final] |
The Purpose of Life Is to Fulfill the Word of God |
Now this night I would say fifteen, sixteen years ago, I saw this wonderful forest and I saw these men walking like stags. They were men but such majesty—antlers, beautiful antlers that would go out of sight, and yet a man carried it. Then I saw a man, he was the third in the Labor government of England, a very controversial figure. He’s gone now…in fact the three of them are gone: Atlee is gone, Bevin is gone and he is gone. He was a Welshman and he tried to completely change the whole structure of the economy of England. He disliked heartily the aristocracy; he disliked anything that was to… |
536540 |
| 1972-01-31 [exact/certain/final] |
What Is Man |
I recall my vision of maybe twelve years ago, that man is now gone from this world. He was second in the Labour Party when Clement Attlee [1883–1967] was prime minister. And I saw him in this wonderful vision one night. I came with a group of men, all turned up. They were like human stags, antlers reaching up almost to the sky, growing out of the brain. And he took a branch and placed it on his head, thinking it would give him the same power that they enjoyed. And he ran and jumped and fell flat on his face. Went back again, he couldn’t quite understand how they could cross a chasm with no… |
549561 |