A friend of Neville's, Mrs. Niemeyer, heard him tell the rose story at a New York lecture, imagined embracing a huge bouquet of roses, and that night found three dozen long-stemmed Beauties in her room at the Waldorf Astoria towers — left over from an English-Speaking Union banquet for Queen Elizabeth, sent up by the head waiter because she loved roses.
Date (happened)
c. 1961
stated · probable · preferred
many, many years ago
relative · probable
before 1967
bound · possible
Reasoning
Qualifying passage ids [536444] belong to telling lecture nids [1301]. Each listed lecture contributes the selected safe envelope year 1967 (MAX of its non-refuted delivery years); 1967 is the MIN across telling lectures.
before 1969
bound · possible
Reasoning
Qualifying passage ids [540378] belong to telling lecture nids [1464]. Each listed lecture contributes the selected safe envelope year 1969 (MAX of its non-refuted delivery years); 1969 is the MIN across telling lectures.
before 6 November 1967
bound
Why
Tightens the phase4 L6a envelope from before 1967 to before 1967-11-06.
Reasoning
L6a envelope tightened to the telling day of nid 1301 (certain delivery 1967-11-06); same premise, finer precision. The phase4 L6a bound on this event is `before 1967`, an envelope over delivery YEARS computed without reading text. Its premise is that the fact is true by the time it is told; on that same premise the DAY of the telling is a strictly better upper bound. Nothing is re-decided — the bound is stated to the precision the evidence always supported. The delivery claim for 1967-11-06 on nid 1301 is held at `certain` by the corpus, which is what carries this claim, and MIN was taken across this event's 3 certain told dates. #2274; the L6a row stands beside this one.
3 November 1954
stated · probable
Reasoning
The roses were redistributed from the English-Speaking Union dinner honoring Queen Mother Elizabeth at the Waldorf-Astoria. Contemporary reporting and the Library of Congress Earl Warren Papers date that dinner to 3 November 1954. Because the lecture narrative explicitly says the roses were delivered from that night's dinner, the event occurred on 1954-11-03; probable allows for narrative transmission while preserving the independently dated anchor.
Told
-
21 June 1969
stated · possible
21 June 1969
stated · possible
Why
Corrects the confidence of the told claim written by run `corpus v1 / phase3b` at delta 2 on this event; that claim is left standing per append-only. Ceiling rule #2132.
Reasoning
Confidence only; the date is not re-adjudicated and is left exactly as written. This claim is derived from the delivery claims of node 1464 and asserts `certain`, but the strongest claim that node carries is `probable`, so there is nothing for `certain` to inherit from. nid 1464 delivery claims: 1969-6-21 possible; 1969-6-20 probable. Walked back to `probable`, the ceiling. Whether the DATE is right is a separate question this row does not touch; if the evidence turns out to support more confidence, it will have to come from a source other than this node.
6 November 1967
estimated
Why
Lane L7 (#2354) re-derivation. Supersedes in substance, not in storage, the refuted-date told claim(s) on this event; those rows stand per append-only.
Reasoning
Re-derived, not walked down. The existing told claim(s) on this event took their date from a delivery claim on node 1121 that the corpus has since REFUTED, so the corpus was asserting that Neville told this on a day it separately says he did not lecture. That is a contradiction rather than an over-confidence, and lowering the confidence would have hidden it instead of resolving it. The refutation stands and the told claim is the wrong side of it. Node 1121 surviving (non-refuted) claim: 1967-11-6 at `certain`. All claims on the node: 1964-1-6 refuted; 1967-11-6 certain; 1969-9-22 refuted; 1967-11-6 certain (preferred). Superseded here: delta 0: 1969-09-22 at `certain` (run `corpus v1 / phase3b`). The telling is dated by its lecture, so with the refuted date removed from consideration the surviving claim is what the telling inherits, at that claim own confidence and no higher.
22 September 1969
stated · refuted
Reasoning
|| v1.1/l7/told-close: the delivery claim this was derived from (nid 1121, 1969-9-22) was refuted by the L7 adjudication (#2363). The corrected told claim from the same lecture stands at 1967-11-6. This row is retired rather than deleted so the derivation history remains readable.
Sources
Source
- The Potter's House ¶10 (A friend of mine — she’s gone from this world now — in New York City, many, many years ago, I told a story similar to this tonight, and sitting in my audience, she said, well, now I’m going to test this, and in the silence she embraced a huge bouquet of …)
- Walk by Faith ¶13 (A few years ago I gave a similar lecture in New York City and a lady in my audience decided to test me. While sitting in her chair she embraced a large bunch of roses.)
- The Bible Is Addressed to the Imagination ¶19 (In New York City one night when I was giving something similar, a lady sat in the front row…and she lived in the Waldorf Astoria.)
- Personifications, Not Persons ¶28 (One lady one night said, “I will test it now.” She wasn’t altogether certain it would work, but she embraced a huge, huge bunch of flowers, roses. She could detect the aroma of the rose.)